EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (WKBN) – Thursday is the first day of the NTSB’s Investigative Hearing in East Palestine.
The hearings began with a list of all parties involved, including panel members and witnesses. Then, the NTSB began with a timeline of the derailment.
The first part of the hearing focuses on Hazard Communications and Emergency Response.
Evacuation/emergency response
Scott Deutsch, regional manager of hazardous materials at Norfolk Southern Corporation, began with his remarks, thanking East Palestine first responders for their response to the situation.
Keith Drabrick, East Palestine’s fire chief, spoke next. He was the incident commander on scene and said the team worked together that reached a conclusion with no casualties. He said the decisions they made led to the safest options, including the decision to have a controlled burn.
The panel then moved to ask Deutsch questions. Deutsch said the first call of the night came in as an explosion from leaked oil.
He says the hazardous materials were “always a concern,” but there was no possible way to determine what was on fire immediately. Deutsch did not learn what was on fire until late that night.
Deutsch initiated the initial evacuation.
During the hearing, a video was played showing the rail cars on fire while firefighters ventured out into the dangerous conditions to fight the flames. East Liverpool Fire Chief William Jones agreed the crews were close to the flames despite an emergency response guide advising first responders to stay away from flames of those magnitudes. Jones said at that moment, he did not have access to the emergency response guide.
“Our first priority is responder safety then the public safety, and the responder safety was a challenge that night,” Jones went on to later say.
The question of evacuation soon came up and how that decision was made.
“The evacuation, it appears, did not occur until about an hour and a half after the conversation was had. Is there anything Norfolk Southern can do better to work with the city and town officials to ensure an appropriate and timely evacuation?”
“Norfolk Southern can assist in any way we can. A lot of people, that’s a big decision to make if you’re in that role. You gotta gather the data and information to decide what you’re gonna do, if you’re gonna have an evacuation, how large it’s gonna be. And I just believe that timeframe is probably from gathering that information and unified command situation,” Deutsch said.
Communication
One of the more specific topics brought up was the communication on the night of the derailment between Norfolk Southern and emergency responders.
Jennifer Homendy, NTSB chairwoman, broke down a timeframe in which crews and responders received the train consist, which is a document that shows the number of loaded or empty cars, weight in tons, and length in feet of a specific train.
Homendy says it was hours before some officials received it, while others got it in minutes. Below is the breakdown she provided:
9:04 p.m. – A call was made from East Palestine dispatch to Norfolk Southern in Atlanta to obtain information about the derailment. Norfolk Southern said they would call them back.
9:08 – CTEH, a contractor that does air monitoring for Norfolk Southern, received the train consist from an email from Norfolk Southern.
9:30 p.m. – Another call was placed by East Palestine dispatch to Norfolk Southern about whether they should start evacuations.
9:56 p.m. – Columbiana County emergency management agency received the consist via email from Norfolk Southern.
9:45/10 p.m. – The deputy chief of East Palestine receives the train consist.
10:23 p.m. – East Liverpool Fire Chief William Jones receives the train consist.
1:30 a.m. – The East Palestine Police Department receives the train consist.
2:15 a.m. – The East Palestine fire chief found the printed consist at the command post sitting on a desk.
“How is it that Norfolk Southern could provide the contractors responsible for cleanup with the information within 12 minutes of the derailment and took an hour to several hours before providing it to emergency responders?” Homendy asked.
Deutsch says it was their IH department sending it to the contractors who were based in Arkansas to bring monitoring equipment based on the chemicals that were in the derailment.
“I can’t explain the timeframe,” he said. “I’m unaware of the dispatch center calls from EP to NS, I’m not aware of that. When I got a call from EMA director Clark, I then sent the consist that I received while I was en route to the scene. It is the railroad’s responsibility to provide that train consist.”
Who made the call for the controlled burn?
As the hearing resumed from a lunch break, the panel got right into it as questions concerning the controlled vent and burn were asked.
Drabick explained his role as incident commander and how the decision to carry out a vent and burn was made.
“We were advised about different steps of mitigation for this by Norfolk and their contractors, they felt that one car, in particular, holding vinyl chloride may possibly have to be burned… They were monitoring that car, the temperature of it. That monitoring went on for some time,” he explained.
Drabrick says it then got to the point where “they felt that was the only option.”
“We held a meeting with all members of unified command and members of political representation from both Pa. and Ohio in the computer room of the school… Primarily led by Governor DeWine where we had the members of Norfolk Southern hazmat team and their contractors SPSI and SRI go through and explain those processes and why there was a need for that vent and burn.”
Drabrick says he gave the final yes to go forth with the vent and burn based on the consensus of everybody in the unified command. He says in total, they had 13 minutes to discuss and make the decision.
Robert Wood, director of hazardous material with Norfolk Southern, was asked what level of monitoring and oversight railroad operators have over its emergency services contractors. Wood explained that they relied on emergency response contractors and their expertise, but ultimately it’s Norfolk Southern’s oversight and what they do has to meet their approval.
He was also asked how much input did Norfolk Southern have in the decisions made to mitigate the hazards posed by the derailment tank cars?
“In consultation with our contractors, there’s a decision tree any time a tank car is involved in a derailment,” he said.
When asked about the process of a vent and burn and under what circumstance it would be done, Wood went on to explain that “the very last alternative is a vent and burn, and when you get to that point, there are no other options available to us, and that was the case here.”
The topic of polymerization came up multiple times. Polymerization is a chemical reaction that produces a very high and dangerous amount of heat. There were questions as to whether or not it was a threat, and who made that determination.
One exhibit showed that the temperature of the car at the time of the vent and burn had decreased significantly since the decision was made.
Norfolk Southern representatives testified that at the time they were convinced it was occurring.
“Now that we’re hearing that the vent and burn decision wasn’t necessarily driven 100% by the possibility of polymerization, can you explain what the urgency was to do then?
“I will speak for Norfolk Southern’s standpoint, that we were dealing with an observation real time of an emergency situation, that we could not rule polymerization out or tank car failure,” Wood said.
Wood said there were other factors that influenced the decision to vent and burn, such as the inability to do a comprehensive damage assessment, the ability to offload the car, and other means of handling.
“We’re dealing with a liquified flammable gas… That, at the heart of it, is the highest danger, that if that car fails that is a large cloud of liquified flammable gas that‘s gonna light off and has devastating consequences,” Wood said.
Training
Drabrick was asked about training and lessons learned from the derailment. He called on the federal government to take action to keep not just East Palestine but communities across the country safe.
“Lots of lessons learned. You never have enough training, and you never had enough manpower. Many departments operate as part-time firefighters. Most work other full-time jobs. That is detrimental to the country. Standards need to be changed in our village. Not just East Palestine but every community in the country. There needs to be more availability for training” Drabrick said. “Evening and weekend classes need to be offered. Additional manpower and funding from the federal government is needed.”
Drabrick said firefighters have already undergone additional training provided by Norfolk Southern and more is scheduled for September.
A lot of conversation surrounded the Ask Rail app — how it works, who can get it and its limitations. The Ask Rail app provides all first responders information in the event of a rail emergency. Users must be approved.
As a backup to the train’s consist and conductor, the app provides first responders with information about what type of hazardous materials a railcar is carrying so they can make an informed decision about how to respond to a rail emergency.
It was noted that the limitation of the app is that many derailments happen in rural areas where cell service can be marginal.
Drabrick said communication, in general, is a big problem.
“There is not one centrally located 911 center. There is not one designated channel. In an incident like this, they were overwhelmed by phone calls. Something of this magnitude is overwhelming to the 911 operators. But communication is an issue. A centralized 911 center would be significant in solving the communication problem,” he said.
Health impacts
Drabrick was asked if he has any concerns for his firefighters who are responding on health impacts, to which he responded, “Absolutely.”
“I started voicing those concerns shortly after my arrival on the night of the incident. It took several months to finally get some semblance of testing done for them,” he said. “I’m concerned about not only my responders but everybody around for long-term health concerns.”
The hearings serve to finish the investigation into what caused the East Palestine train derailment on Feb. 3 and prevent similar occurrences from happening again.
The hearings are the most recent updates into NTSB’s investigation since March.
At that time, First News learned the agency was investigating the pressure release devices removed from the five vinyl chloride monomer tank cars.
The NTSB reported in its testing that it found anomalies with the function of some PRDs that will require further testing and evaluation.
The agency says this Thursday’s hearing is a fact-finding step in its investigation. The testimony will be part of the public record of the investigation.
The focus will be on the derailment itself and on the subsequent hazardous material release and fires.
Specifically, the hearing will look at four topics in the next two days:
- Hazard Communications and Emergency Responder Preparedness for the Initial Emergency Response
- Circumstances that Led to the Decision to Vent and Burn Five Vinyl Chloride Tank Cars
- Freight Car Bearing Failure Modes and Wayside Detection Systems
- Tank Car Derailment Damage, Crashworthiness, and Hazardous Materials Package Information
The hearing will call around 20 witnesses to testify in the next two days, including representatives from the East Palestine police and fire departments, Ohio and Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agencies, Norfolk Southern and the Federal Railroad Administration.
The hearing is scheduled to start at 9 a.m. and go until 7 p.m. Thursday at the East Palestine High School. The hearing will go from 9 a.m. until 6 p.m. Friday.
Afterward, the NTSB says it will use the information gathered to complete its investigation, determine probable cause and make recommendations to improve transportation safety.
However, it could be several months before the full investigative report is released. The public is invited to come and observe the hearings.
The public was welcome to share their questions and testimony at Wednesday’s community hearing.
The hearings will stream on NTSB’s YouTube page as well as here at WKBN.com starting at 9 a.m.
